Don't Fear What They Fear
We are Robbie & Joy Bircher. Welcome to our podcast. Join us as we dig deeper in our studies of the Bible. We will be chatting about relatable life experiences such as camping, family life and all other adventures. We're so glad you're here.
Don't Fear What They Fear
Matthew 22: Prayerful Living in Politically Charged Times
Are you ready to discover how Jesus masterfully handled the political schemes of his time? This episode of our podcast delves into Matthew 22:15-45, where we witness Jesus navigate the tricky questions posed by the Pharisees and the Herodians. These two groups, despite their political differences, joined forces to discredit Jesus. We explore the significance of their questions about paying taxes to Caesar and reflect on the wisdom of Jesus' answers. We also examine the relevance of the Ten Commandments and the great commandment in our everyday lives.
As Jesus faced these politically charged traps, what can we learn about our own interactions with authority and governance? Through a detailed look at the Herodian dynasty's collaboration with the Romans and the Pharisees' opposition, we highlight the broader implications of Jesus' responses. We discuss the intricate balance between adhering to governmental laws and staying true to God's commandments. You'll hear insights on discerning when laws conflict with divine teachings and the importance of prioritizing faith.
Moreover, we touch on the importance of prayerful citizenship, stressing the need to pray for our nation's leaders regardless of political affiliation. Through personal anecdotes and biblical references, we provide practical examples of balancing civic duties with religious beliefs. We close this episode with a heartfelt prayer for wisdom and guidance in our nation's leadership choices, encouraging unity in prayer and reaffirming our commitment to being a nation under God. Don't miss out on this enriching discussion that not only deepens your understanding of biblical events but also offers wisdom for modern-day challenges.
don't fear what they fear here, are your hosts robbie and joy joy matthew 22, chapter 15 to 45 sorry, chapter 22, verse 15 verse 15 to the probably to the end, or probably to the end, but we might cut it in half yes, so for this episode we're going to be talking about three different group of people asking Jesus questions to test him or trap him.
Speaker 2:They're trying to trap him, trying to get him to say something that would be condemning. They're going to be having like loaded questions, if you will.
Speaker 1:And so we'll find out how Jesus responds to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know, as you are listening to us, I have something for you and I to think about. Do you know the Ten Commandments? What are they, and also, what is the great commandment according to Jesus? So those are the things that you should be looking out for in this episode. Yeah that sounds good All right, so grab your Bible and study the word of God with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, read. If you want to pause it here and read the rest of 22, 22, 15, to the end, and then we'll. We'll pray, father. God, we thank you for putting it. Being here in front of the cameras again today. Lord, being able to read your word, speak about it, just at least me, enjoy having this conversation into our Bible study. Lord, we just thank you. Thank you for being able to do this and do this openly, and being able to record it and put it out for the masses. Lord, we just pray that we're able to reach people's hearts and help them motivate to read the word. Lord, we pray that people just the seed gets planted and starts to produce fruit. Lord, in us and others, and just that we make an impact that you are known. Lord, we just thank you. Your will be done in Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, we're matching.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Our kid has a little league game today.
Speaker 1:Yes, go.
Speaker 2:Junior dance.
Speaker 1:Junior dance it's actually such a good program for the kids.
Speaker 2:If you have some, you know, I think they're all over yeah, I know that ours um northern california they're it's t-ball minors and majors um. So I'm I'm thinking it's like, uh, probably three year olds and up right, yeah, or it's like four-year-olds to teenagers and, yeah, just different programs and I think it's all.
Speaker 2:I don't know about the whole state, but it's through Northern California because the Giants have such a window of area to work with and I'm sure the Dodgers probably have something similar down south and in other states you have other ball clubs that'll do the same thing, but it's a different.
Speaker 1:Same thing, but it's a different. I mean, it's a cool program for little kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it incentivizes reading. They have like a reading program during the week they have they teach them about health and all that stuff too. Like there's like four. I should know this better, but there's like four different things. It's on the back of my shirt, I think yeah, so it's teamwork, leadership, confidence and integrity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so those are the four things that they are teaching the kids so a really cool program.
Speaker 2:So, um, I guess we're not sponsored in any way. We're just, uh, excited for our son yeah, okay excited about it.
Speaker 1:So yeah um back to business so do you're going to have you guys read on your own? I'm not going to read the whole thing because it's a pretty long.
Speaker 2:Well, I was thinking, if we just read what we're going to talk about the first one, so the conflict with the Pharisees and the Herodians you want to just read that and we'll talk about that, you can read the next one and talk about the next one.
Speaker 1:All right. It's easier that way. So we're going to talk about the Pharisees. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar? Yeah, then the Pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle him Chapter 15.
Speaker 2:No verse 15.
Speaker 1:Verse 15. Chapter 22, verse 15. Then the Pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle him in his talk, and they sent to him their disciples with the Herodians saying Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God. In truth, nor do you care about anyone, for you do not regard the person of men. Tell us, therefore, what do you think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not? But Jesus perceived their wickedness and said why do you test me, you hypocrites? Show me the tax money. So they brought him a denarius and he said to them Whose image and inscription is this? Thank you, lord.
Speaker 2:Thank you, lord, for your word. So I think we should probably do two at a time and then we'll have an intervention and do the other two. But I think, yeah, this is so. The Pharisees so this is the first people group that come, and actually the first two people groups that come and question Jesus, and I like the way that this is started the pharisees went and plotted how they might entangle him in his talks.
Speaker 2:So they've obviously they're together talking about like okay, we gotta get this guy right yeah he's this, this, this has gone on too long, which we gotta stop him somehow, but so, what's okay? Well, let's, let's, let's entangle him in this. I got a question for him, um, because there's uh an issue with the tax here, because you gotta remember that, um, at this time, israel, um, the jews are are conquered by the romans.
Speaker 2:They're, they are not necessarily enslaved, but there's a a conquering nation that's in charge of them, yeah it would be like equivalent of the united states being under rome, uh, under um, being under the Russian control, or something like that, maybe China taking over. Now we're under the leadership of China. So this tax issue is a pretty big issue because the nation of Israel is having to pay a tax to the Romans, who are basically enslaving them. So they're paying their leaders, they're paying their conquered, they're paying, they're paying their conquered nation, their enemy, that this, that is their true enemy and, uh, it's their. They're having to pay a tax to them as well as their, the.
Speaker 2:The Messiah that they ever are, except as expecting, is a Messiah of um, like somebody that's going to come and give them freedom from their conquerors. Right, so so they. So jesus is claiming to be the messiah, but uh, the messiah that they're looking for is somebody to free them from the romans. So if they, in this question that they're asking is a loaded question that if he says you need to pay your taxes, then obviously he's not the messiah because he's for the romans. But if he says that, no, don't pay the taxes, then they're going to go tell the Romans hey, this guy's plotting against you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So this is the trap that they're setting for him here. The Pharisees sent their disciples along with the Herodians this is the second time, I think, we hear about the Herodians. So you hear about Herod. We heard a lot about Herod and the Herodians, so you hear about Herod. We've heard a lot about Herod and the Herod dynasty. The first, herod, was trying to kill Jesus as an infant and killed a bunch of children. And then the second, herod, is the one that killed John the Baptist.
Speaker 2:So, and we know that, what the Herod and the Herodians? That they are a political party, the Herodian dynasty, and they're in a collaboration with the Roman government. So they're Jewish in a sense, leadership, but they are completely tied to the Roman government. They're given control from the Romans, gifted, if you will. So they're trying to get word games and kind of get him to damn himself or to condemn himself with his answers here, um, and then the, the. The irony is that the pharisees and the herodians, they don't necessarily get along, they don't. They're opposite ends of the political spectrum from each other, as well as the Sadducees, which we'll get into them soon too. Yeah, but those, these three political groups, if you will don't agree, they're, they're not on the same side, but they both, they all, all of them, these two specifically have enough hatred of Jesus Christ that they're willing to work together and try to to get him to say something that's not good. Yeah, they're willing to work together and try to to get him to say something that's not good, yeah, the joining forces against him.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, um. And the first thing that they do when they start talking to him is that one they're giving him a respectful title teacher. Yeah right, teacher, um, we know that you are true and teach the way of god and truth. Nor do you care about anyone, for you are not um, for you do not regard it the person of men. This is actually kind of a weird translation here. I was reading in a different translation, I don't have it written down, but, um, I know that in, like the, in other translations, it makes it's more flattering and it makes more sense than the way that this is translated in in um, uh, new King James. But basically what they're doing is they're flattering him. They're saying like hey, you are true and teach the way of God in truth. Nor do you care about anyone Meaning like you truly teach God's word, no matter what people think of you.
Speaker 1:Well, they think it's flatter, but it's pretty condescending.
Speaker 2:They're trying to flatter him. Yeah, they're trying to flatter him, but it's just condescending That're trying to flatter him. Yeah, they're trying to flatter him. It's just condescending If that was true, they were honestly, truthfully telling him that then they wouldn't be trying to entrap him in a question.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're trying to butter him up, but Jesus isn't going to fall for that. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not? That's the question. That's the trap. Is it lawful to?
Speaker 1:pay taxes to Caesar or not, right? That's the question. That's the trap?
Speaker 2:That's the first question. Yes, so, like I said, the government, the Pharisees. So the Pharisees, they're not for the tax right, they don't want to pay the tax Because the Pharisees are like the smart they've studied the scriptures, They've spent their life like just learning the scriptures and the law of Moses and very book smart when it comes to Jewish law.
Speaker 1:Law. I have put that the Pharisees believed in the resurrection and following legal traditions that were ascribed not to the Bible but to the traditions of the father. So it's more of they relied on, more of the tradition. You know they think they're doing good by doing the law, but additional things that they added to added to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. The law yeah, they added to the law. So they definitely we've talked about this before. Yeah, yeah, they added to the law. So they definitely we've talked about this before. Yeah, and Jesus has broken down a lot of that previously in the book of Matthew about, like the law is this, but you've added this, this, this and this right. And so and then. That's what the Pharisees know is all the added.
Speaker 1:Additional stuff to the law.
Speaker 2:And it's not for compassion, it's for control. Yeah, so the Pharisees are for no tax. They believe that the Roman government is a bad and oppressive. The tax was to be paid to a government that abused and enslaved the people. And it's way worse. We think of American taxes. Our taxes are bad, we pay too much and it doesn't go to where we're told it's going. But the difference is that they're paying their taxes to a conquering nation right, we're just.
Speaker 1:We're paying our taxes to a political system that's corrupt.
Speaker 2:It's supposed to be for us, yeah, but at least I mean it's still in theory. It's for the people of the people, by the people. Yeah, this they're. They're being conquered, they're paying taxes to the romans, for the Romans, by the Romans. It's not.
Speaker 1:Israel.
Speaker 2:It's not their own government. So if Jesus said, don't pay taxes, the Pharisees and Herodians would go straight to the Romans and be like, hey, this man is plotting against you. He's saying that we don't need to be paying our taxes. And then the Romans would have then arrested Jesus and got rid of their problem.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Um, but on the other side, other side of the spectrum, is the Herodians. Uh, pro Caesar, right, the pro, pro, pro Romans decide what the Romans would have been an insult to the rest of the Jewish people, um, and he would be in support of the oppressors of the Jewish people. Like I said, they believe that the Messiah came to to of Roman control of any invading army and all that stuff. So, bringing back freedom to the Jewish people, which Jesus does, he brings us freedom, but not in a worldly manner. Yet, right, we're freedom of salvation, we have salvation. We're freedom from our sins, we're freedom from the bondage of of sin. You know, he's brought that to us, just like with healing, like we're healed, maybe not here on earth, but when, when our time comes and we'll, we will be healed fully in heaven. Um, so those, those he's brought these things that were, um, predicted, uh, in old testament, but it's just not being the way that the Romans sorry, not the way that Israel had expected it. Yeah, so, yeah, just yeah. So, jesus, this question, this loaded question that is asked, obviously Jesus perceived what's going on and it says there too, right, he perceived their wickedness and said why do you test me, you hypocrites? Um? So he calls them hypocrites because they falsely pretended to have good intentions, right? Um, that that's what he's been. Also, I believe too, that because they are opposite views but working together, um, in in this question, um, because they both want different answers, but they're asking it like it's an easy answer, right? So he's calling them hypocrites. He calls them straight up wickedness and hypocrites. So a denarius, right? So he showed me the tax money. Right, so they brought him a denarius. We talked about a denarius before in one of the other parables, and a denarius is basically a day's wage, right? So I looked up what a denarius was.
Speaker 2:The coin I don't have a photo of it, but maybe we could put one. That's pretty easy to find, but it's a coin. It's a silver coin with the stamp of Caesar's head Actually, I think it's not Caesar that is in charge right now. It's a roughly a day's wage. It's a coin with Caesar's image on one side and an inscription, and on the other side is a stamp of a woman, but I don't remember what that was. I didn't write that part down because I don't think that was the important part. So the inscription is also kind of important here. It says Caesar Augustus, tiberius, son of a divine Augustus, and with the words son of a divine Augustus, is claiming that after death, augustus had become a god, so it's also.
Speaker 2:It's a coin stating that this man is a god right, which is completely blasphemous to christ and to god the father. This coin was in itself blasphemous to christ and to god. The jews did not choose to use this money, but they were under roman authority, so this was the money that they had to use to pay taxes at least. Right, and we know about that with the money changers too, because we talked about this previously. It was that the money-changing tables. They would change the Roman money into the Jewish money so that they could pay it as a sacrifice, right.
Speaker 2:They would give it to the priests and the leaders in the temple, Temple leaders, right, so this was Romans' money, and that's kind of what we're going to get to here. Jesus responds with render, therefore, to Caesar the things that are Caesar's Render. And so I like what Jesus said here too. He doesn't say pay taxes, he says render to Caesar what is Caesar's. He's using the word render as to pay back Like you're returning what is.
Speaker 1:What belongs to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's not really answering the question the way they wanted him to answer the question, right? He's not saying pay your taxes. He's saying give the money back. That's his money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and so I think that's pretty cool, obviously not falling for that trap. So this is actually a little bit of a deep thing here. So he says render, therefore what to what is Caesar, what is Caesar's and what, and to God what the things are, god's right. Let me make sure I read this right. And he said to them render, therefore, to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesars, and to God the things that are gods. And they heard these words and they marveled and they left him, um. So it's a very kind of a short, subtle answer that's like straight to the point, but behind it is, um, a stuff that sometimes I don't want to hear myself, but it's he's telling us his followers, christians that we are to, we have an obligation to follow our earthly governments.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And to God. But it is our responsibility as Christians to follow the law of the land until it becomes sinful to do so Like you know. Just little things like crossing the street at the crosswalks is a law, right, you're not supposed to run across the street like that's so easy for us to just just do. Right, we just do it. And but those are laws that are put in place by the government. Those are easy to follow and it's obviously not sinful to do so. Now, if the government says, okay, well, you guys can't keep bibles, right, that is not we're going to outlaw the, the christian bible. That is for us. That would be a point where we can't follow that law right, right it has to be um if it supersedes god's law it's, it's not good yeah, so, um, yeah, there's.
Speaker 2:There's certain things where we have to draw the line, and that's also why it's important to know the word Exactly, because we have to know if the government goes too far. But we're respectfully like I have a, I think it's. Was it All right, let me finish this and we'll get to it. But I have a couple of examples in the Bible where this takes place, but we're to follow of all of them. As believers, we are citizens of a heavenly kingdom and strangers, sojourners on earth. Um, that's first peter 2, 11, 17. I mean right, I got that over here somewhere. Where to go?
Speaker 1:where to go, it's crazy, though, because I think that you know, this country, even though people disagree, was brought because of God, brought together by God, you know, and I think that If we are a nation under God, I think the law should reflect that. But because not all of us Agree that Jesus Christ, that Jesus is God, that God is God, that there is one God, that there's kind of like a division when it comes down to a law.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's why certain things they don't make sense to for christians, because we are first under god and then follow the governance that is our nation, you know, and I think that it's so important to keep praying for our nation, because the more that we as a nation go away from godly things, the more we will the law will reflect evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Evil things. And so, as you know, believers, we have to really be diligent and praying and praying and praying for our nation and reading the word of God and knowing like, is this something, is this law that's in front of us? Well, is it biblical, is it something that is reflecting of what God wants for this nation? And we can begin to either vote for that kind of stuff and pray for the people. You know, I don't think that someone who's in charge, like our president, even if they're not believe, hopefully that they believe in God, that and then walking away from the biblical ways that we can pray for them.
Speaker 2:And I think yeah, I and Caleb. In the morning they always have a prayer for me. It might not be Caleb, it might be Erwin or the other one. Anyway, one of the radio stations in the morning, the.
Speaker 2:Christian radio stations always has a prayer for our leaders and it's like a little 30-second snippet, but they always just bring up some random person's name. It's not random, but it's bring up some person in our government high up in our government's name. It's not random, but it's a bring up some person in our government high up in our government's name, um, like you'd be like the, um, the head of this, um education, or like the vice president or the president, or um, the senator or something, and the, the radio station will have like a like a 10 second, 30 second prayer, um, for that leader. And I think that's important too, because, like it's so many times we condemn our leaders, we're always talking bad, whether it be Trump, biden or anybody. There's always so much negative and criticism and like attacks almost, if you will, on these people and no, not many people are praying for them. So I think, whether it's your political affiliation or not, it's still, if they're in charge, they need prayer.
Speaker 1:They need their prayers and especially now, when we're going into picking our new president for the next four years, it's even more so that we need to be praying because, honestly, when I open the news and I see the two running presidents, Neither one of them are running.
Speaker 2:One of them is barely walking and the other one is pretty old too.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh my goodness, how many people do we have in this? And that's all we have? Yeah, like that's all we can do. But even with that opinion, we're going to have to pick one president.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And whether or not I believe in that president or agree on everything that we say, that he says, we have to remember that god is sovereign over everything. He's got a plan and he's got a plan and even though it doesn't seem like a good plan for us, jesus is gonna make it good and it's our job as a church to be praying for these people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Why don't we just do that right now?
Speaker 1:Why don't we, you and I, as you listen to this just if you're driving, obviously don't close your eyes, but just you know, lord Jesus, we pray for this nation, the United States, lord, that you brought, because you have a big plan for this nation. And because of this nation, lord, that we're able to go out into other nation and let them know who you are. Lord, you are king over everything, you're king over the president, you're king over the world. And so we pray, lord, as we go into this election. Lord, let us take away all our opinions and all our thinking, lord, but replace it with your wisdom, lord, and help us and guide us into picking the president. Whether or not we agree or disagree, lord, we know that you have a plan for this nation and we pray for everyone, lord, to come together and just make known that you are still alive and working in this nation. Lord, we will not just give up because we know that, one nation under God, lord, we are one nation under God under you Lord.
Speaker 1:Father, and so we thank you. We thank you for this moment, and we just praise you for the United States, because we know, lord, that you hold us accountable for everything we do as individual, but also as a nation, and so we thank you for guidance, lord and wisdom, and we just call upon your son, jesus. In his name, we pray, amen, all right, let's see.
Speaker 2:So I was going to bring up 1 Peter 2, 11 to 17. We're talking about being being. What did I say? He says okay, I kind of lost track here, but let me see. Okay, so I got. Not of this world, right? That's that clothing brand. You see the stickers on the card? Right? Not of this world.
Speaker 2:We, as believers, are citizens of a heavenly kingdom and strangers, sojourners on this earth, right, and that's written in 1 Peter 2, 11-17. So I'm going to read that we, as believers, are citizens of a heavenly kingdom and strangers, sojourners on this earth, right, and that's written in 1 Peter 2, 11 to 17. So I'm going to read that 1 Peter 2, 11. Beloved, I beg you, as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul. Having your conduct honorable among Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may be your good works which they observe. Glorify God in the day of visitation. Therefore, submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether the king as supreme, or to governors. As to those who are sent for him, for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who are sent for him, for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good, for this is the will of God that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bond servants to God.
Speaker 2:Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear god. Honor the king, and I really love the end of that. Fear god, honor the king. Yes, right, we don't have a king, but we have a government. Fear god, honor the government. But that's hard, that's hard for me, like that. That's that's I um what's hard.
Speaker 1:The second part, yeah, the second part yeah, honor the king yeah um I previously not not king Jesus right no, that's not.
Speaker 2:That's not. What is that fear God is? That's? That's Jesus, king, jesus, uh, god. Yeah, that's God the uh. Honor the king. Is that what you're talking about here? Respect the government, follow the rules. Yeah, um, prior to being saved, especially in my my um teenage, early 20s years, I was very much, um, I wouldn't say I was aligned with the anarchist party, but I I was uh, you know, I wanted, I didn't care, I wanted anarchy right, whatever to do with the government yeah, and even now, like my political views today I'm I'm very much more on the libertarian side of things, which is like as little government as possible, leave me alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, um. So it's hard, it's humbling to to be told to obey, right. It's like I well, I find a lot of the stuff stupid and I don't want to obey like uh. For, for instance, the heartache is I find stoplights ridiculous, right, if there's. If it's three o'clock in the morning and I'm driving and there's nobody on the road and the stoplight is red, I, nine times out of ten, I'm gonna roll right through it, right, but it's. I'm being told right here not to do that. You know, regardless as to to how stupid I think these rules are. You know it's a rule and the Bible is telling me that I need to observe.
Speaker 1:And God supersedes any law anyway, since the one he says.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we are submit to our leadership and government, except when it is conflict with God's word and if it becomes sinful to do so and unfortunately for me, stoplights aren't sinful yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:That's when you know. That's what you were saying earlier. Let's make sure to read the Bible so that we know if we're in alignment as a nation with God's governance. There are certain things in the Bible that's not going to tell us the answer to everything that is in a nation. That's why God put that authority over it. But I believe we are responsible as individuals to know God's law, to adhere to His law, to his law in, in respect and in love for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the key part, there is respect and love, which is I'm going to read a thing here. This is from Acts, chapter four. This is Paul, and I forget who he's with Paul. No, this is the boldness of Peter and John. So this is Peter and John. So they called them and commanded them to speak.
Speaker 1:Which one are you this?
Speaker 2:is Acts 4.18. So I believe the context of this is that some of the Jewish leadership has got a hold of Peter and John. Leadership has got a hold of Peter and John and they're they're preaching about Christ and they're being told that what they're doing is wrong and they need to stop. So they called them and commanded them not to speak. So this is the Jewish leaders. They called them and commanded them not to speak at all, nor to teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them whether it is right in the sight not going to listen to you. But they're also they're saying it in a very respectful way they're saying whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God. You judge like that. They're being respectful, like you said, like we respectfully, um, don't, don't do what is sinful. Like if, if they're being told by their government not to do this and they go, I mean sorry, but you're in direct contradiction to what christ has told us to do, you know. So that's, that was the correct way to do it. They're not being like spiteful, like you know. Well, screw you, I'm supposed to do this and there's no attitude there. They're like well, you judge if I'm to listen to you or to listen to God. Yeah, right, and they're. They're speaking to people that believe in God. They're speaking to believe, not believers in Christ, but they're speaking to believers of the father, right? So they're they. They know the authority of God, right? So I wanted to go with Acts, chapter 5, verse 27 and 30.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to kind of paraphrase this one, I think so. It says the apostle is on trial again. So it's kind of the same situation. And the high priest asked them saying Did we not strictly command you not to teach in his name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine and intended to bring this man's blood on us. But peter and the other apostles answered and said we ought to obey god rather than men. The god of our father raised up jesus, whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Um, so they, there are times where we are to not listen to what a government tells us to do, but that's not the majority of it. There's, uh, there is a time I mean that's what we need to read the word and know when those are, and know when to put our feet down and know when to, to stand up um for what is righteous.
Speaker 1:Right. How do you feel about um with our government being like the separation of? Was that religion?
Speaker 2:Church and state.
Speaker 1:Church and state.
Speaker 2:Well, we're not called to force people into religion. In the letters that Paul writes to the churches, he says if people don't want to hear your words, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on. And even Jesus says that when he sends the apostles out. So that's it. That's how our nation is. We're supposed to have to be accountable to God, but if people don't believe, then we're're supposed to have, you know, be accountable to God. But if people don't believe, then we're not supposed to force them to believe.
Speaker 2:I think they and you can go back to, like the whole Indians and the missions and all that stuff, which was an atrocity. That was not at all what God wanted. That's not how Jesus would do his ministry, by any means. So there's a lot of that is wrong and that's the outcome of trying to force people to have faith. Right, and all that's going to do is it's going to solidify people that, like your God is horrible, like people are horrible, and they're going to associate with um, what people, how people act to? Uh, unfortunately, that's the way it worked. The world works.
Speaker 2:People are going to associate Jesus to how Christians, christians- work right, and if we're at, if we're sitting there forcing our beliefs on people, that's bad. Now there's there's things, there's uh morals, or there's there's um things that we need as christians, need to try to force into law. Yeah, um, I think, like abortion, um, obviously, murder, like the one of the commandments is thou shall not murder, and one of our um, our laws is no murder, right? So there's, and actually, if you look at our um the ten commandments that you brought up earlier, and if you look at um the um, uh, um, man, I'm gonna feel stupid for not being I don't know the name of this right now, my brain's not working firing on all cylinders. Um, what's the united states declaration? That declaration um?
Speaker 1:the um no, no, no, no, no, no, no constitution, constitution gosh, you better edit that out I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it's already I've only had one cup of coffee and I've been thinking about other biblical stuff so I forgot about the political stuff. The Constitution, our US Constitution. It doesn't directly match the Ten Commandments but there's evidence of the Ten Commandments in the Constitution, right, there's a certain amount of that stuff overlaps and that's not coincidental. So I know that PragerU and all that they talk a lot about Judeo-Christian values, that that's like their term, judeo-christian values. But I think that's true. I think that's our nation is built off of Judeo-Christian values. But I don't think that anybody in the Bible was called to preach and to share um. But the word convert, I think, is where we get kind of mixed up. I think we are to share and that people come up with it themselves, but we're not called to um forcibly convert people right.
Speaker 1:I mean we think about us ourselves like we're saying, and I never felt like god is forcing me to believe in him. He gave me the free will to believe in him. So that's what we have to do. We can't be like, well you know, whereas other nations are forced into the beliefs or um denied or denied yeah, like there's a lot like.
Speaker 2:uh, I know in some muslim countries that they're not allowed to have the Bible. I know in South Korea they're not allowed to have the Bible.
Speaker 1:in parts of China they're not allowed to have the Bible, you know, and that's what's great about our nation is that, yes, I believe that there is only one God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Jesus was here to die and raise again so that he can save the world. To die and raise again so that he can save the world. But it's so nice about this nation is that we still have the freedom to believe what we believe, to be able to say what we have to say, regardless of whether you're a muslim or christian or an atheist, whatever you call it. That we're still able to, and for us you know I can't speak to other religion, but for us, being Christians, we are called to first the Great Commission and also the Great Commandments which is what we're going to be talking about later and what Jesus said about the Great Commandments.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The Great Commandment.
Speaker 2:The Great.
Speaker 1:Commission and then the Ten Commandments. Yeah, yeah, the great commandment the great commission and then the ten commandments. Yeah, yeah, and so do you want to end?
Speaker 2:here it says render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God things that are God's. We are God's. We are souls. Our bodies, our minds are ourselves. We are made in the image of God, by God, we are his. We are souls. Our bodies, our, our minds are ourselves. We are made in the image of god, by god, we are his. The coin was made in the likeness of caesar that's his yeah so, uh, we are gods, so give, give ourselves to god.
Speaker 2:we give our, our you know, our um, trust, our belief, our, you know, we give ourselves to god. That's what jesus is saying there too, and I think that's what's important here. Yeah, and yeah.
Speaker 1:So and I like the end when they had heard these words, they marveled and left him and went their way, because when I read that, you know I was kind of confused what I was saying. Also, I marveled on the fact that when he, when jesus, answered them give to therefore, render, therefore, to caesar the things that are caesars and to god the things that are god, and it's like god, jesus, taking ownership of us. Because of jesus, we are now able to be reconciled to the father.
Speaker 1:And now we're just like he's doing that for us. It's reconciling, giving back what's his and we are his. You know, we are created in his image, and so he wants that back.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, for sure.
Speaker 1:And so all right, guys, thank you for joining us. We'll continue with this next week and hopefully you join us and pray for us and have a great week.
Speaker 2:Love you guys. Thanks for joining Peace, bye.
